Decoding Commerce

#47 Talk with Dopper | Saving the planet, making millions

• dear digital • Episode 46

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In today's episode we're shedding light on the journey of Dopper—the revolutionary bottle company on a mission to promote tap water and combat single-use plastic. We discover the tenacious spirit of Merijn, Dopper's founder, whose personal crusade against plastic waste birthed an iconic product that's as functional as it is a conversation starter. He revealed the challenges of international expansion, the pivotal shift from nonprofit ideals to impactful social enterprise, and the innovative strategies they've adopted, like the Olympic plan model, to stay aligned with their ambitious environmental goals. Thriving amidst a rapidly evolving business landscape, Dopper stands as a testament to the power of aligning purpose with practice. Join us to explore the triumphs, setbacks, and insights from a brand that's reshaping how we think about sustainability, one bottle at a time. Stay tuned, stay inspired.

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Speaker 1:

The only way to move forward in business is sustainability. There is no old world anymore, to make money only. Yeah, if you start a social enterprise, you're making money, you have less chance of bankruptcy and the world really is in a transition. So please step on that train and don't go for the old merin, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3:

Um, thank you for joining us. I look forward to talking to you. I look forward to hearing your stories. Um, maybe for those that haven't heard of you or dopper yet, it might be good to give a short introduction.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you mentioned my name already, so that's quite clear. I'm originally from the restaurant and event business. It's how I grew up, let's say, and where I followed my education, but in a certain point this is a really short story. I was a bit fed up with all the pollution in the world and, living next to the beach, I got inspired by all the plastic waste which was in the ocean or went actually from our beach into the ocean, and there, yeah, the solution. I was looking for a solution for it. I hope we come back to this a bit more because the story is a bit bigger than this, but this was the inspiration of starting actually a movement to inspire people to reduce plastic waste and have a solution for it, and that's the famous dopper bottle very cool.

Speaker 3:

I think definitely in belgium and netherlands it's really famous. I can attest to it as we have multiple of those at the office and also at home. My wife has one from her hospital where she works. It's everywhere. It's a really famous movement definitely you've created and I think the mission is clear. But I'm really curious to hear how you ended up with this solution, with focusing on this problem where you then, let's say, five years old and you already knew I'll be going into plastic waste. Or is it a different story? How did you go from, let's say, young age? You went into the restaurant business, as I've heard.

Speaker 3:

How did you go create Dopper in the end? Like the whole backstory, I'm interested to hear yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, uh, good to know is I uh grew up in a, like we call it, a green nest, so my mother had always a garden for vegetables next to our house. Um, my parents are separated so I had a sort of other life with my father, but he was all about against the war, against atomic weapons, pro-amnesty international, to help free people who are there, who should not be in jail. So I was grown up in this environment, but it was far away from a consumer environment. So when I started to earn my first money, I um, I started to spend it well, let's say, but well in a bad sense, that I didn't actually realize what I was doing, just buying jeans every time, new shoes, a car, without any thinking, just like I have money so I can spend it. Um, but over the years, especially when working in the catering business. So first I was working in the restaurant business but then I moved to catering and events. In that case you always have 25% by luxury catering, 25% of extra food with you, because you never know if they eat more or less, but in the end you will throw away at least 20% of the food. So this started to hurt a bit with me. I was also working in the big dance scene, so events for 50,000 people drinking Red Bull and water, actually mainly, and taking pills, of course, and we were always very proud that we cleaned the whole event space of all this plastic where you were dancing on. So this kind of hurt me.

Speaker 1:

And then one indian summer day in 2009, uh, just before the summer ended, I was on the beach in next close to my home, um, and there actually I saw what I saw my whole life a dirty beach, but I never realized what it actually did. So but then I realized, okay, the tide was coming up, the wind was picking up, so actually all the plastic waste was there. I went into the ocean, although I thought every night there comes a bulldozer to clean it, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. Yeah, um, and as if the stars were right at that day, I came home and in the evening there was a mini documentary about the plastic soup for the first time shown on Dutch TV. It was 2009. Yeah, I thought.

Speaker 1:

Then I really actually saw what was the problem. So it's out of sight, out of mind, because if it's somewhere in the water, you don't see it anymore. But in this documentary it was very clear that, uh, yeah, uh, plastic contains chemicals. Um, it's becomes a soup, like a potato cooking in the soup. It was like plastic cooking in the ocean. So it all biodegrades, biodegrades, uh, uh, into the are part of the ocean later. And it's proven that all the animals that live in and from the sea have some sort of plastic in them. So I thought, okay, this is really a disaster for the environment. What can I do as this little person standing on this huge beach and actually in this huge world with a big problem? But I digested it and, um, I was part of a collaborative workspace with 25 other entrepreneurs and, like every tuesday, uh, we had like a sort of setup that somebody stands on a soapbox, as we say it's a safe case, and then uh says I have a problem, I see this happening in the world, or can somebody help me with this?

Speaker 1:

um, so I was, uh, yeah, ventilating what I saw on the beach and you were already an entrepreneur.

Speaker 3:

Then you were yes, I had my event business.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, so I was working there for my event agency, which actually is the beginning of skype, so I was actually busy, uh, making online events, but it was a bit too early for that, okay, uh, because the internet was not that fast, um. But I was not stuck with it, but it was like that was my new idea and that was working on crazy, um. But then I saw this problem and I was just pitching it as like, can we not, with these 25 companies, do something about it? People, people were cheering, yeah, yeah, yeah, we also hate it when we go to the beach and we don't like to see it. Let's start a movement.

Speaker 1:

And back then the flash mobs came up. One very nice inspiration was for me in Antwerp, actually in Belgium, on the central station. But the main inspiration was for me a flash mob for Oprah Winfrey. Now, 10,000 people were doing this amazing dance and it was her birthday surprise or something. And I got really like this is how you create a movement. You have to make something fun.

Speaker 1:

So that was the initial idea to organize a flash mob and then draw the attention for the problem. But, yeah, luckily somebody in the crowd said yeah, we also should think about the solution. So not only address the problem, but also think about the solution. And then we thought, okay, there was one designer in the room, there was a graphic designer as well, and actually together we made a dopper bottle, but it came out to be more like, let's say, a children's bottle. It didn't look really appealing. And then the guy says yeah, anyway, I'm busy. Um, yeah, I don't have time to help you really. And then I thought, okay, why don't I initiate a design competition, because dutch design is world famous? Yeah, um, and so I did.

Speaker 1:

Uh, so on the 3rd of January 2010, we organized a flash mob so that original idea stayed at 11 o'clock in the morning in Utrecht, then we went to Amsterdam around 1 and then at 3 o'clock it was in Haarlem and altogether there were more than 500 people attending this flash mob. There were news outlets from newspapers there to interview me. Why, why, why? Why are you doing this? No, it was to draw attention and in our press release there was also. We're actually looking for the solution so please, dutch people, think about design how.

Speaker 1:

what would be the perfect bottle for tap water? That was the question how come from plastic pollution.

Speaker 3:

You went to a bottle, or, let's say, a permanent bottle, because there are several other products. Did you look at other products that you believe were actually, or you were like? The bottle is the message.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it needed to be a bottle, uh, a replacement actually for the mineral water bottle. Yeah, because I saw a lot of people uh using this bottle actually to tap water from the tap. Um, and that was my also. My wake-up call is, like these people actually not using this mineral water bottle to drink this clear spring water no and they are actually using it as a vehicle to transport tap water.

Speaker 3:

Um, so yeah, I thought then we need to have just a beautiful solution for it something you cherish what you like, what you are proud of to show to other people and then, hopefully, tell the story to others, if you, if you walk on the beach, then most prominent thing that jumps out is also like a bottle of people drinking, something I can assume, indeed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, on a hot summer day, you need to be hydrated. So people are buying, unfortunately, a lot of mineral water and there's ice cream wrappers, there's fresh fruit wrappers, but let's say half of the pollution was really mineral water bottles.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so the design contest you launched it in 2010. Um what happened?

Speaker 1:

yeah. So then, because it started really as a movement, um, I thought, uh, yeah, we need to make a sort of business out of it. That is becoming serious and and, uh, really make a product. Yeah, um, so, um, I in my surroundings like who can make it? And I really wanted to produce it in the Netherlands.

Speaker 1:

Actually, really important to mention is that an alumni of the Technical University in Delft he was the winner of this competition, but there were about 100 designs and 10 were sort of usable and out of five we chose this bottle as a winner. Together with him, I changed the design a bit, but the main look and feel was the same. Nice, um, and we do have camera. But for people who are only listening and don't know, dopper, it's a bottle in three parts and if you take it apart, you have a cup, so you can drink from a cup. But you can also take off the top lid and then you can drink from the same 2.2 centimeters diameter, which gives an excellent flow of tap water into your mouth. But this is coming from an idea. To make a real product was, for me, a totally new experience. I never did that before. I thought, if I call a factory and then it's done. How much can it? Cost.

Speaker 1:

But no, I found VDL.

Speaker 3:

Sorry, it costs a lot. It costs a lot yeah.

Speaker 1:

Way more than I expected. Let's say, I was expecting maybe 10,000 euros and it was 110,000 euros. Okay. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so, um, uh, I asked the word crowdfunding didn't exist back then. Now it's a normal. But uh, actually I did crowdfunding with friends and family, uh, and I had my own money a bit, yeah, uh, and altogether it was enough for the first uh molds to make and did you quit the, the, the catering and event business, then, or did you continue to?

Speaker 3:

no, I continue to do both.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah yeah, because, uh, it was not, um, it was not meant to be a business at first, and when it was a business, I didn't know if it was going to be successful.

Speaker 1:

Um, but feeling, um, the how you call it the momentum was there I really had the feeling that it needed to be there in 2010 and the original idea was to start in august, but now the bottle had some problems to make to produce, so in the end we did it on the the day of sustainability, on 10 10 2010 was dopper born.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a cool date.

Speaker 1:

But good to know, also talking to business people here in this podcast. Still, our R&D department is existing and still we want to make the Doppler better than we did the day before. Right away. I chose to become Cradle to Cradle. In the beginning we were bronze, then silver and now since one. And In the beginning we were bronze, then silver and now, since one and a half years, we are gold certified. But I always felt, if I put something on this world, I need to take the full responsibility for taking it back and taking care that you can recycle it again 100%. And next to that, we are on a mission to reduce. Nowadays we say packaged water, because it also comes sometimes in carton, which is not carton but it's it's uh, plastic with covered with carton. Um, so our mission was very clear, but I also want that the backside of the company is also, uh, actually on a mission to do better. So not just put a product into the world, but take the responsibility, the manufacturer.

Speaker 3:

Then, from your first bottle, cradle to cradle, lcas and these types of things, were they already aware of those things, or did you have to educate them in a way of like, we want to do this, can you do it then?

Speaker 1:

yeah, fight for it, or yeah, yeah, no, I remember the discussion because, um, of course, designer was also involved in choosing the materials. Originally it was planned to make steel, but steel was not possible to produce in the netherlands. It was way, way, way too expensive and it still is. So yeah, we're now producing in China, in an American factory with good standards and they're all certified, but we still want to produce here in the Netherlands. Where was the question about?

Speaker 3:

No around just the notion of like cradle to cradle.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3:

I would say, from my perspective, fairly up and coming notion. Definitely not everybody already thinks around it.

Speaker 1:

No. So, yeah, that's what I wanted to say. So I asked the um, the producer, like, can you give me the best material there is? And then they said, okay, this is the best material. I said, but how can I know that you are selling me the best material? And then they said, okay, you can let it assess by cradle to cradle. And then you know, um, but, and they said already on forehand, we are using the same material as, uh, tupperware, um, and that gave me a sort of at least quality feeling, like it can last forever.

Speaker 1:

So, um, that was the start, but it's uh, we found out that a lot of materials, what they advised, were not, uh, the best materials, so we changed them already in the first year. But even last year we made a switch from the material of the cup, the white part, into other material, because, yeah, it can always go better, and what I actually wanted is that it was made from recycled plastic, and back then it was impossible, but nowadays we can luckily say that it's, I think, 75% recycled material material, what we use. So, uh, and in the doper steel is 90 recycled material. So, um, yeah, if you're aware that you can do better, um, I think that's always a nice motivation for an entrepreneur.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, to do good yeah, at the same time, maybe a bit more around that cradle to cradle. Um, I'm just interested for those that don't know and that are listening. Can you quickly explain it in like a few sentences what it is and what, what the key uh, key proponent is then of that concept?

Speaker 1:

yeah, the idea is a cradle to cradle. You can listen to it as a term, but if you hear the words, cradle is where you're born and you're going again to a new place where you can be born again. Cradle to cradle, so it means the material, what you use, should be able, after use, to be reused again. And if you are gold, let's say, then the quality of the material will stay the same. If you're bronze, then it's actually you are downcycling, but still you are recycling. So it's about taking the responsibility but also knowing the whole chain. So it's not only the start of the product, it starts before the product. Where you get your materials from, how are they sourced, how are they transported? How are they made into the material, what you want? Are there chemicals involved? What kind of chemicals they are? Doper has also different colors, for instance, so we need to know where this coloring coming from and does it contain toxins? Does it leak toxins?

Speaker 1:

So that's actually the cradle theadle Institute is helping you to or helping you. They assess your product. Yeah, but it's. Yeah, I always see it as a help because I have no clue and my producer wants to sell me the best material for the best price. So sometimes they have a clue. Sometimes they also don't have a clue. So I think that's the most important thing about Cradle to Cradle Was that a Dutch institution that helped you?

Speaker 3:

Is that an organization about Cradle to Cradle? Was that a Dutch institution that helped you? Is that an organization, the Cradle to Cradle organization that helped you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so Cradle to Cradle itself. It's from a German professor from Lüneburg, but he also has a branch in the Technical University in Delft and Tebodin. They actually helped us to assess.

Speaker 3:

It's a Dutch consultancy firm yeah is the um? As a somebody who doesn't know a lot about it, is, then, the gold standard, like, even above your gold, that you already have right now, you ever like, have, like um the circle, let's say, like you can actually create your bottles again from, yeah, the previous bottles that you made and upcycle them again and again, or is that, uh, how do you call it impossible? Let's say, utopi? Or utopia, to think of it that it will ever happen no, no, it's a.

Speaker 1:

It can by the doppel original, so the plastic version can be 100 recycled into a new product. Um, there's one more standard, higher than gold, that's platinum. Okay, um, that's uh, it's like you can bring it back to where its original source from. So, um, with the oil product, it's, uh, quite possible to do you can do chemical recycling and then an oil product after use in a faster form in like a solid form. Yeah, you can. Uh, by chemical recycling sounds chemical it is, but it's not dangerous yeah um, you can make it into oil again.

Speaker 1:

Uh, so you could put it back into the ground. But it's more thinking like something which is organic. You use it like clothes, for instance, and you can biodegrade it into nature. That's a full circle of platinum cradle to cradle, yeah and that would be the ideal world.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, um I was also thinking it would be great if nobody is using actually our products and change the world by that. But that means that you have to hang your head under the sink and then drink only in the way from that, because I thought you don't need a dopper bottle.

Speaker 1:

At home I use a glass, but a glass is also made so uh and can break, has to be made so then I thought, okay, and then we keep it to dopper, but it should be the best bottle in the world and we are, uh, certified the best bottle in the world, so I'm really proud of that that's really cool.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, um. Yeah, maybe a bit more around. Why a business? I find that an interesting concept. Um, already tell you it's a concept that I definitely believe in. Um, but I wonder it could have been a flash mob. It could have been a non-profit. It could have been some something where you would like raise money, go out to television, talk around it, spread awareness around the topic you wanted to provide a solution. Yeah, um, it could still be a non-profit. Um, is there a reason why you think business is better or do you think it could have, could have been a non-profit?

Speaker 1:

um, I started as non-profit. That was my initial idea, um, but I also felt I um I'm sort of draining to the soft side, uh, more the activist side, and I thought, um, that didn't work for me myself because I'm coming from this activist nest. And I thought, but the consumer, they're like people who consume mineral water, they don't give a shit about nature.

Speaker 1:

So I wanted to make something in their hands where they don't give a shit about nature. So I wanted to make something in their hands where they don't even notice that they are making a change. The bottle is nice and that's why they buy it, and they didn't even know that they were skipping mineral water. And it's also, unfortunately, known in our research that a lot of people who are using dopper are still using plastic water bottles. So, luckily, most of the people are uh, out of research is that they are saving 140 bottles a year. Okay, so that's really a lot. It's impressive, uh. But I also know that there's people walking around with the dopper and, yeah, if they forgot the dopper, they don't give a shit. And on the station they, uh, they buy again. You know what? Yeah, yeah. So I I really felt I was going to the soft side when I, when I, when I become to an ngo, yeah, um and uh.

Speaker 1:

Soon after I started, uh, there was an interest out of the united states, so we opened the office there, yeah, um, and that was actually at the cradle to cradle office in the united states, and they actually taught us about social enterprise the word I never heard before is by selling your product, you're actually doing good for the world and I think at this moment that's still the right choice to do. But I hope to start living, hopefully sooner than later, in a world where we respect nature way more and value the stuff that we have. It's not the meaning that you have a lot of doper bottles. It's the meaning you have one, maybe two uh bottles, but the same counts for your clothes, for the car, for the foods, what you're taking in. Um, there's a lot of people not rethinking about it. So, um, yeah, yeah, that's why a product more than an NGO and I thought there are already NGOs and what's good to know is a part of our proceeds so not profit, but proceeds is going to drinking water projects in. Nepal.

Speaker 1:

So the ideal dream is to end packaged water and that everybody has access to safe drinking water all around the world.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, maybe a bit around that, because we hear both. We hear plastic pollution, but we also hear clean tap water. Yeah, yeah, it's in a way similar in a mission, uh, but has it ever been like, um, hard to choose like which mission first is it ending plastic pollution? Because that's a well.

Speaker 3:

That's a very big mission, but having clean tap water is a very big mission also, so I could imagine there could have been like doubt in a way yeah, if you uh go to an education of entrepreneurship or of marketing, then you will learn.

Speaker 1:

You need to have focus and you should say one message. But it really felt really wrong to me that in the Netherlands we can drink tap water and there's 1.8 billion people in the world who don't have access to safe drinking water. I thought the contradiction is too big. So I wanted to address both issues, but so far I think we had at Doper three marketing managers and they all came in and said to me Merijn, it should be one message, because this is very hard to communicate. So over the years, the mission is to end packaged water, which means, if we achieve that, there should be an alternative, clean water. So in that order we bring it.

Speaker 1:

So, we, let's say, one in 10, we communicate about the problem that people have no access, and the nine out of 10, we communicate about ending the plastic pollution. Actually, that's clear, okay, cool, it changed over the years the way. Yeah, yeah, because I thought it really should be 50 50, but we found out that's too confusing. But we should mention that we are donating to nepal and that actually so many people have no access yeah, there is it from the start then.

Speaker 3:

Was it first the plastic then, or was it first the clean tap? Was it first the plastic then, or was it first the clean tap water?

Speaker 1:

No, it was the plastic pollution yeah.

Speaker 3:

That was the idea.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Okay. And it was that part of one guy, his wife, part of these entrepreneurs, these 25 entrepreneurs. His wife worked at Simavi, it's a Dutch NGO and he said, yeah, or I was saying, is it so unfair? And then he said, oh, my wife works there, maybe we can collaborate. And before the bottle was there, there was a collaboration with Simavi.

Speaker 3:

Okay, cool, awesome. Maybe to switch a bit to the sales and marketing sides, because what you've done is really impressive. I think the mission is really noble also, but the way you've done it, the execution is also at least from an outsider really impressive. But I wonder how do you go about from selling one, let's say, to a million euros in revenue? How did that journey go? And if there are three things you can point out, it doesn't need to be true, but always interesting to hear what were the key factors for you to bring you to that level. You actually create that impact because once you have that revenue, you can actually do much more, give more of also, and maybe a bit of also. Around the time frame, was it five years or was it two years?

Speaker 1:

yeah.

Speaker 1:

I'm super curious five years, or was it two years? I'm super curious. Um, so I had a business before. Uh, although it was not with employees, I hired people. This was something totally different.

Speaker 1:

Um, the starting point was the mission, and the starting point today is still the mission, and, um, I think that made a natural growth to our business. There was no, no sales target. There was an impact target. And then you are doing business in a different way. Of course, on the backside it's a normal business because you need to make profit, to order new bottles, as simple as that. But if you put the mission first, so let's say, you want to make impact. Now we are in Amsterdam, you want to make impact in Amsterdam. You can choose. You can go to all the big stores and say, on eye height, my bottle needs to be, because then it's selling bottles.

Speaker 1:

But what we did is organize a lot of events in Amsterdam where we did the water tastings, where we did the kind of weird things. We built a wave where you can serve, in plastic bottles, all kinds of cocktail shaker events. That was the thing what we did, and not selling bottles. But because we were at these events, the bottle got sold and from the start. So the initial idea started in January with this flash mob. Then in March we introduced the bottle and then August, but it went October. That was the introduction of the bottle itself. And between that, because we did crowdfunding and actually also crowdsourcing with the design competition, we had already a fan base and this fan base was informed about every little step, what we did. So as soon as we came on the market so we opened our webshop in August people were already ordering bottles more than I expected, and because we were quite a bit in the news every time, we had a momentum to bring a press release.

Speaker 1:

Also, a few marketing companies and other companies picked up our idea, and it was Ascent it's the energy company in the Netherlands, or the marketing company who advised them said okay, you want to go all sustainable? That was the question. Don't you need to give a gift to your employees to make a statement? So they ordered and it was, yeah, as it was again in the stars, I needed to order in batches of 20,000 and they ordered 20,000 bottles. I was like, okay, it's amazing, they paid way too less. They paid the producing price because I didn't have a price yet, but it was a great kickoff that you already have 20,000 sort of semi-fans.

Speaker 1:

And, what was really nice, there was a sustainable travel agency Sawadi it's called where you can book trips to anywhere in the world, I think, and it's always in groups and they always had six packs of water in the bus, but they were fed up with it, so they bought big gallons and they asked people to bring their bottle. And then I thought, okay, why not we give everybody, every traveler a bottle with our logo so they can refill it? And then they did a bottle with our logo and uh, so they can refill it. And then they did a competition with it.

Speaker 1:

Um, uh, so every uh, try to make a beautiful picture on your trip yeah and post it on your social media, which back then was much smaller than now, but still, uh was really nice. And then every year they, uh, they give away a trip for two persons and one person was, for free, the winner. And they did four times in a year. So now we have thousands and thousands of pictures all around the world by waterfalls or nice beaches, nice, beautiful, beautiful. But it worked for them. It worked very much as an activation for their brand and, yeah, our bottle was all over social media in the picture. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So they ordered, I think, 10,000 bottles first batch, and they did it three years in a row. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

So now, yeah, my initial idea was to sell 350,000 bottles, because I calculated, then I have paid the malls, yeah, and I had no clue. What are you talking about volumes? I had really no clue. But, yeah, after half a year we sold already this 350 000 bottles, or, uh, after the first year. So it was way, uh, quicker than I ever thought. Um, so, yeah, if you get orders, you need more people. Um, you have more money, uh, to do activations. And so it started without bottle, with two interns, and when I really came to market, I had one employee and I think, let's say, two years later, there were 10, 15 people okay, yeah, but just to set the scene a bit or to to give more insights to the listeners.

Speaker 3:

Um, from the start, you said, okay, I need to sell 350 000 bottles just to cover the costs of the mold. Um, but do you was there like a sales plan, a marketing plan? Events, we're gonna do 10, 10 a month. Yeah, the events were there in place, but sales was uh not at all okay no, there was.

Speaker 1:

I needed to find a shop, so I found a chain. It's called var honest in english, this chain and then back then they had eight shops in the netherlands. Now they have 25 or 30, um, but I thought actually I wanted to go to uh, hema, but they are only selling their own products. So I, I didn't know, but they are only I didn't know either, so they only have the hema logo on it.

Speaker 1:

That would then not be a double bottle but a hema bottle. Uh, then I went to bayekorf. They found that the margin for them was too less. Now we are in bayekorf many years later, um, but I wanted to find a chain which really can take us on and from there, uh, luckily, they picked up really really well and everybody was coming there. But, yeah, I wanted to go to more stores broader, and so I needed to hire a salesperson, because that was not my kind of things.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to make events all the time, so we were hopping from event to event to event to event and because of the event, we sold a lot online and which, yeah, I mentioned already with the logo, um, which I didn't realize that this is a huge market. So, let's say, to retail, we are selling in boxes of six, uh, but, as I mentioned already, ascend was ordering 20 000 bottles, and it's the same phone call, yeah, so, uh, in the beginning we did 70 80 percent of doppers with logo. Yeah, because it was given away as a giveaway, which was really nice for us to spread more awareness. But after five years it was at least for me, it was working against me, because the people said, yeah, I already have a bottle, I don't need one more. I already have a drawer full of bottles, I don't want any more. So after realizing that, that we actually closed down this channel to a minimum.

Speaker 1:

So we went from 110 resellers to only three resellers in the netherlands and our approach in any other country like belgium, is really focused on the consumer, so not on b2b, but like people who are really intrinsically motivated to buy a bottle which they want to keep.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, where they actually read about the mission, where they have to go through, let's say, the homepage, where they have to go through the product page yeah, they actually capture it without receiving it from your boss, and then throwing it in a goodie bag, exactly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And what we also said is like it was ending up in a goodie bag. And then at a certain point, we said we come to the event ourselves or you, somebody from you is telling the story and the bottle should always be given.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so not in a bag, but at the beginning of the Congress or event you get you get it here is a sustainable water bottle, because otherwise it ends up somewhere in a draw. Message is lost, yeah, indeed. And then the purpose. Yeah, I get it interesting. Yeah, um, I've heard a bit around the internal workings already. Um, but I I wonder when did you realize? Okay, like now we're a real company. We just sold 350 000 bottles, yeah, um, now we need structure and organization, we need teams, we need members, talent, um, how did that realization come?

Speaker 1:

yeah, already quite quick, I must say, because it went way faster than I expected and I was never running a company with employees and also not really with making. Um, how you call the? The predictions of the year, how much you're going to make or how much you want to do. So luckily, there was an ad in a newspaper or an interview in a newspaper with a guy who said I'm giving a course to companies which are growing fast. So I said that's me, but the minimum was you needed to make 1 million and it was already in the first year and we did 750,000. So I thought, okay, I can apply, and luckily they took me in. And back then it was a course of two years. It was called Fast Forward and every month you come together with 20 entrepreneurs approximately, so you can talk to the others and you get a lesson in all the divisions of your company and how to make them better. And they worked according to the rockefeller habits mr rockefeller, unfortunately one of the biggest polluters in this world with this steel and oil firm but did?

Speaker 1:

He did have a clever plan. He called it a one-page plan where he could see in 1A4 where his company was going. Okay, so all the parameters were there in one form. So, about your clients, about the hazards, about your employees, about your production, you could see in one glance where is your company standing, and not only with money, but also in your plans, your future plans.

Speaker 1:

And not because that he's a big polluter, but I met another entrepreneur along the way and he was guiding top athletes for the Olympics. And if you want to have a gold medal at the Olympic Games, you should have a plan. You can't go from zero to Olympic, so you have to have a plan. So you make a schedule when you have to train, what, how you become better. And, uh, an athlete, even if you see only one athlete, is never alone, so it's always a team who makes the effort. And it was quite a that resonated with me, because I played field hockey back then on a high level. So I know, know that you need a team, you're not alone. So he developed a plan which is called the Olympic plan. And actually you don't have to ask me what I'm doing in five years, as they normally do, but you can ask me what are you doing in four years? Because every four years there are.

Speaker 1:

Olympic games. So we make a plan in which we actually move one year every time. So we are not waiting for paris, but we are. We are already. Our plan is already four years ahead from now.

Speaker 1:

And it's a really great way of working because, um, you make a plan, what do you want to reach in four years? Then you say, okay, what in two years and what's this year, so you can make your all predictions for the year, um, general plan. And then you have to ask the team how we're going to make this happen. So it's not the, the leader. Uh, the leader is guiding, it's more like a coach. But the employees of the company are making the plan because they should get the gold medal, um, so we make a plan for the year together with the employees and they are cutting it down in four quarters, um, and say, okay, this quarter I need to do this because they should get the gold medal. So we make a plan for the year together with the employees and they are cutting it down in four quarters and say, okay, this quarter I need to do this, which means this month I need to make this happen, which means this week.

Speaker 1:

I need to make this happen, which means today I know exactly what I need to do to reach the point of the end of the year and actually the goal of the four years ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's working so great. Yeah, I really adopted this to the company yeah and really important to mention, uh every um, let's say, these four years, we have five strategic goals. How to read the? So the five rings of the olympics and, as you know, the logo, all these uh rings are interlinked with each other, so it can't be that one plan is not connected with the other.

Speaker 3:

So this is always with that thought in mind we are making the plans yeah, all right, and certain strategic goals are, for example, reaching an amount of revenue, reaching an amount in uh donation you you might want to a few things that are indeed interconnected.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So some let's say we always move it four years ahead, but we do use the Olympic Games. So we did want we were at the Olympics in London and we were at the Olympics in.

Speaker 1:

Rio, unfortunately not in Japan, because of COVID, and now we are again Olympics in France. But it means if you want to have business and events in these countries where the Olympics are, you should do a step. That way, you can be very active in the UK, but if the Olympics are in Paris, then nothing will happen in Paris. So we need to talk to the water suppliers in Paris. We need to talk about high traffic places. So we have a deal with all the national museums of Paris. There are water taps from Dopper. So, yeah, you need to make a plan to make it happen, and sometimes you need to do this already, four years ahead, and some things will pop up all of a sudden, and that's always nice. Also about this, this Olympic model, is that you feel like a sporter. Yeah, because you don't win the national champion by one.

Speaker 1:

It's also you're also failing become second or third or tenth, or you have an injury, and this also I like it works with the business. It's not always going up. No, and that's what I like about this, that it's allowed to make failures, it's allowed to be injured. Let's say in that sense, and it's also part of the analogy of like, it's a sports team, it's allowed to make failures, it's allowed to be injured.

Speaker 3:

Let's say in that sense yeah, and it's also part of the analogy like it's a sports team, it's not a family. I think I've heard that before so yeah, in terms of the, the olympics that peaks by interest are is there anything you'll be doing there? You've been talking to a few key players there, um, but will you be active then on the grounds with events, with activations?

Speaker 1:

yeah, it's still, unfortunately still a bit of a secret what we're going to do but, uh, for those who see it on camera, they see it already here, but, um, we did already. At least one step is to make a golden bronze and a silver dopper. Yeah, um, that's really to celebrate, actually, for all the people who are want to change, and they deserve whatever color you like, but, uh, if you win a prize, it's, uh, the gold medal, of course, a golden dopper. So this is part of the journey, what we made and what we started four years ago. This was on the agenda. If it was not on the agenda not our goal then this bottle wouldn't be, uh, be there. But we are, yeah, of course, very close also with Belgium supporters and hopefully soon they can and are allowed to announce.

Speaker 1:

But we are not Coca-Cola, so we are not a sponsor. So it must be a motivation of the supporter itself to show it most of the time in a not Olympic way, because it's not allowed to use the Olympic logo.

Speaker 3:

I was just going to ask. I've heard that definitely with supporters. They're tied in with contracts and these things and boxed in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so a lot of supporters. They just have it as a bottle, as one of the bottles, but they will not advertise it, but they will use it on the social media you see them drinking, or whatever. So we asked them to do things.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, maybe to um, drill down a bit of the story, what would you say has been key to to the success? I think talked around the mission. Yeah, uh, would you say the mission was, if the mission wasn't there, it was, that's clear it wasn't a success. Or was it the theme behind it? Uh, you can, of course, pick more, but I am curious to hear like, for example, the event is also super interesting. We hear lots of companies that do great stuff but they do not come out, they do not engage with their audience physically. Yeah, just interested to hear your opinion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let me say the beautiful design helps a lot and there was also. I wanted to make a design bottle, not just a sports bottle, which was also could have been fine. Thank you to all the backpacks with have a side pocket, because it pops out and the top of Doppler is really iconic, or the whole bottle is iconic, but you recognize the bottle from 100 meters away.

Speaker 3:

I just saw it on the bike. Somebody was passing.

Speaker 1:

It was really funny in the beginning in the United States when I lived there also in New York for a bit, I put the bottle on the table and somebody came up to me and asked me what it was and if there would be a nike bottle, nobody would ask, maybe if it was a very fancy one, but uh so it's also a conversation, uh, starter, um.

Speaker 1:

So, together with the events, what we organized, I think this is really the power. We're not talking about sales. Uh yeah, now we're talking, of course, a bit because we're talking to entrepreneurs, but the doper story itself doesn't talk about sales. It only talks about the mission where we're on, and I think that's really important. And we're looking for stakeholders all the time. We call it the circle, like the circle of influence who can influence the problem and get rid of the problem? And we went to the COP last year in Dubai. Yes, it's very polluting, but if we were not there, nothing would have happened.

Speaker 1:

We are talking with ministers in the Netherlands, with the European parliament in Brussels, to really change laws, draw it, get the attention to it and as saying, about plastic pollution and drinking water. They don't take it as one story. We are doing two parallel things. I think that's really important. But, yeah, in the beginning we called ourselves the fun-loving rebel, so it was really like, in a fun way, we're going to change the world. But we also found out and since two years we call ourselves a witty activist Guys, after 14 years of dopper bottles, there's only a light change in the going down of the consumption of mineral water.

Speaker 1:

It needs to change really now. So I think, becoming more in the news of being an activist, I'm fine with it, because activists are also more accepted nowadays as normal people. Before they were always strangers. So I think that before they were always the strangers. So I think, yeah, that's really part of the success. But to inspire other entrepreneurs, talking from a mission which really helps to make a better world, you always win. It's proven that 45% less bankruptcies are applied to companies which are a social enterprise. So only for that reason, you're and making money, you're doing business and you're doing good for the world. I think that's, that's uh yeah, the wisest advice.

Speaker 3:

What I can give here. Yeah, very cool. Um, yeah, maybe a bit around that activism, because indeed, um, I think the for me at least the most uh pronounced example is indeed a bit of the patagonia switching to much more of the activism, being much more aggressive, being taking a political stance, which is quite risky in a business, as you will probably exclude a lot of people. You'll make people angry. Is that the future?

Speaker 1:

I have done mission-driven companies uh, no, any company should make a transition. Uh, if you're not already in a sustainable business, then you, you're going to be left behind. Yeah, the world is changing. Um, I also own a vegan restaurant. I started, uh, in the year of covid not the best time, but two years prior I had the idea and everybody was saying to me I think it's better you put some meat and fish on the, so don't go all vegan.

Speaker 1:

I said no, no, if you want to change the world, we should go all vegan. So some people need to stand up and make it the hard change, and if people are falling off the wagon, let's say that's fine. But now you see, the transition of plant-based diets is enormous. It's growing. Even at Burger King, you can choose every burger a meat version or a plant-based version, and they make plant-based even cheaper now. So the transition is here. So, as an entrepreneur, you should really think uh, a business where I work in, where can I make a change? And also what feels good for your heart, and think about your children's future, because it's really at stake yeah and and now you can still make a change as an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, but the transition is there. I think that's also really good to realize for a lot of people. They think, just yeah, um, my generation will still be fine, I'm still making money, so I'm fine.

Speaker 3:

Uh, yeah, of course you're fine and now but uh, soon your children will not be exactly a bit of a circling back around, then the mission, indeed, and how bold it should be and how much you can actually exclude, because I'll try and explain my question here is what I often see, and I have the same reflex, and I don't I'll let you tell if it's a good reflex or not. But if you, for example, have a very bold mission and you would you were to convince 10 people, but those 10 people would be ambassadors of that mission. Or you were to have a somewhat okay-ish mission that's not that bold and that everybody agrees with and is kind of soft in a way, but you have 100 people saying, yeah, I like it, but they won't be your ambassador. I'm framing the question in a way, but I want you to give an honest answer here. Would you always say, yeah, go, go more niche, go bolder go. Or would you say we've hesitated between how we just can't go that hard, we just can't say this?

Speaker 1:

or have you always said like, let's say, I think we were always bold in that sense, so we didn't lie about the problem. But I think how we get again people was by some, making something beautiful, um, or if you don't have a product, make something honest or do something honest. I think there is the key. Yeah, um, so um, your audience. If you feel something, you probably the audience is bigger than 10. Yeah, if you really think your idea needs to see the world, uh, you're, there's more people thinking like that. So I, I trust the ones, the 10, the small group and from there spreading the world instead of doing a bit good and not doing it. Brands maybe not names, but the big clothing change which say we have a sustainable line, yeah, really nice. But in the end, you will lose it to the sustainable brands.

Speaker 1:

They become bigger or they are now the inspiration for you how to do better yeah um, so, um, I do think you need a group of uh people who are bold and hard, yeah, um, and they definitely will inspire others. Yeah, and the vegetarian butcher, uh taken over by uniliver, as well well as Ben Jerry's taking over by Unilever. So Unilever the big bear let's say the bad bear also sees that we need to change, and Magnum now is also available in vegan, for instance, and if Ben Jerry's was not on board, magnum would never have been vegan. So you need these companies and don't be shy about it. Yeah, maybe you earn a little bit less yeah but know that you are aspiring others with it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the big, the big guys have you ever felt that like in a retailer, saying sorry, you can't do that because you are in a way too pronounced around a certain subject?

Speaker 1:

uh, not for retail not. But what was quite funny is that, um, I've been a few times in the quote. The quote is for the rich people and you get a list of people who are millionaires and they get ranked. I was not in this ranking, by the way, but more to inspire people about entrepreneurship. That was a few years ago, but now I'm not invited anymore, they said honestly, because I'm too much of an activist. Okay, yeah, so they're protecting their brand. I'm okay, but I think the quote will be also going the sustainable way. It cannot be in the future, because there will be only sustainable brands. That's how I believe it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know I sound naive in this, but even the people who only are in there for money yeah um there's already big investment funds which are actually only, uh yeah, sponsoring um or investing in uh good companies let's say and also the rich kids are there because they want to get rid of the money and they want to get interest on their money. So, uh, maybe without knowing, they're already doing good.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure, all right, Super interesting I've been. I've talked around Belgium and the Netherlands. We hear around impact, we hear around the mission. The mission is huge. How are the other countries, how is, I would say, germany and so on, going, or even the USA? I think you've mentioned it before. You had a company there. Yeah, is it still active? Uh, are you able to do and the netherlands and belgium, belgium and then other countries at simultaneously?

Speaker 1:

I had a dream when I started and when I was, when it was kicking off with dopper and the. The problem is worldwide.

Speaker 1:

So I had the feeling and remember that 14 years ago internet was, and especially social media, much smaller than now, but I had the feeling and remember that 14 years ago internet was and especially social media much smaller than now, but I had the feeling that I had to be on every continent in the world. So I pinpointed this is the best business case pinpointed pins on the world map where I haven't been, where the problem is big. So there was Asia, there was Australia I thought that's interesting Sydney I never mean South America was there and the USA was there. There was an interest already quite quick from the US. So in 2012 already we started a branch there in San Francisco. I didn't have enough money so we had to close it down after two years, but we moved to New York, which was also easier for us in communication and time-wise. But my idea was that if you can embrace, with all your branches, the whole world, then you can change the world. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But just yeah, actually when was it now? Five years ago, we decided to only focus on Europe because we were more busy with hiring and firing employees and setting up a warehouse and retail, blah, blah blah. So we closed all that down and have a full focus on Europe, wherein the Netherlands and Belgium are still the biggest markets, and Belgium came quite quick after the Netherlands, although I said to my colleague who said uh, we followed after the Netherlands.

Speaker 1:

Um, although I said to my colleague who said to me, let's go to Belgium, I said no, no, no, Belgium.

Speaker 3:

It's too small for us because we were in Hong Kong.

Speaker 1:

We had a branch also in Hong Kong and in Rio de Janeiro, so I was like the world's not Belgium but um, uh, there was a project from UGent, from the university in Ghent. They came to us and they said we want to do a project on water and waste. Can we have a few bottles? So we gave them, I think, 100 bottles for the students and from there it like went crazy in Belgium.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it really took off. So also here it's the people who talk about it, talk about the mission, who are actually helping us to spread the mission and then selling bottles. That's actually how it goes. But honestly, Belgium was not high on my priority list because I was thinking the world and then the mission is bigger. Yeah, but I'm really really happy. My colleague was that fine and one of her arguments was actually that Belgians are more into quality because we were also in france, they are more into quality than, for instance, in france okay so you want to have a.

Speaker 1:

We have a quality product. Yeah, and belgian people are willing to pay for it. Yeah, and in france they just use it as a yeah, something cheap let's say, yeah, is there?

Speaker 3:

is there then, as the olympic model is, then there are also a very clear model to go into a new country. Let's say, for example, germany, huge market, uh, I would assume also a big fan of quality.

Speaker 1:

Um, is there like a strategy behind its ambassadors, activists, yeah, yeah there is a strategy, although it's a bit of a bummer to say, but we didn't find the golden way to reach a country. Yeah, so in belgium we managed to do it, but I think it was the belgian people themselves, and not us, who made it happen. Um, in germany, and we were right at the start, we were selling in germany and ever since we are selling and it's doing right. Okay, we are doing, uh, events, or we did actually a lot of events there, but so far I see less traction there. But now, like in france, yeah, paris, a few people are embracing us, but we don't find the model yet.

Speaker 1:

Um, it could be also money, uh, because, uh, yeah, we are organically grown and it's not like that we have millions for a campaign. Um, our campaigns are quite small, um, but yeah, if you do have money, you, you can have your bottle at eyesight of course in every shop and make the contracts and pay actually the shops to sell you, yeah, and that's something we don't want.

Speaker 1:

We've done also that the retailer really wants us, and not because we give them money, but because they really want to see a better future maybe a bit around that.

Speaker 3:

Um, do you, for example, advertise, spend a lot of money on advertising? Or would you first say let's go to the city, organize some events, yeah, then we'll see.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the, the biggest start, although, I must say, since there's the, the words and people who are influencers, um, we really use the influencers, but they should be really like, uh, really involved. It's not like a fashion doll, who is? Holding the dopper yeah that's really. We really want also this. Let's say, witty activist or people are talking about a better world yeah all right, maybe a bit around rnd.

Speaker 3:

It's an interesting subject in terms of the, the product, because I've seen it evolve over the years. I've also seen the, the taps and these things. Super curious to hear how that evolution went and if there are any learnings there that you would like to share.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, learning still every day. But the learning in the beginning was quite hard because when we came to market in October 2010,. We thought the dopper was watertight, but when I was handing them out to the people who went with this travel agency, I saw them dripping. I was like, oh no, oh no, and this at least two years into our business. Um, the dopper was still leaking, not all of them, but quite a few. So it was a big journey and a learning for me uh, how to make a product actually yeah and I was actually warned by the producer already back then.

Speaker 1:

He said it can take one and a half to three years to bring a product to the market, and I was doing everything within one year. Okay, but that was my learning curve. We had to learn while we were selling bottles.

Speaker 3:

Why did he say that he?

Speaker 1:

said give yourself time before you put a product to the market. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be really good. And still, it's not perfect, yeah, but it's much better than then but um, would you have done it otherwise?

Speaker 3:

like would you know. But that's also part of my personality.

Speaker 1:

Um, I also I don't like to fail, but I don't mind to fail yeah, um, just as a learning, um, so, uh, also the water tap. Uh, actually, that was all done by the team without me, but there are also. Yeah, at a certain point we thought, okay, now it should come to market. We thought it was a good product, but we found out also on day one at the installation ah, this is actually not good. That's not really good.

Speaker 1:

And that's what we're also working on still every day, and I'm fine with it. It doesn't have to be perfect it needs to be good and it should. Most importantly, it should tell our mission yeah, uh, and that's what we aim for. And while we mean like working on making it better, I'm fine with it yeah, yeah, you, you have today.

Speaker 3:

Have a a few team members then working purely on r&d? Yeah. Is it done with a collaboration with an other?

Speaker 1:

yeah, so we do it internally. We have, uh, two people really working on it night and day and that's on the bottle and also our accessories and on the water tap. But we have external parties which are good at plastic. We have people parties which are good at steel, about making things watertight. So we are looking actually professionals out of our circle instead of hiring them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay, cool yeah. For example, the insulated bottle. I think there was a trend somehow that suddenly popped up. Is that because it's less about water?

Speaker 1:

I could imagine more about, maybe tea, yeah, it started by the United States because they drink ice cold water. Yeah. And they want to keep it cold and this is single wall. And if you put cold water or warm water in here, you feel it? You will either burn your hands or you will get stuck to the bottle. Now, Insulator was really focused on people transporting and keeping it cold. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And uh, of course, some people are uh going to the outback and they're taking a warm water and making maybe soup out of it or whatever yeah. But it was not meant for coffee or tea. Okay, and that's still not how we see it. Yeah. We are here to promote tap water. Yeah. Um, so there is where it's meant for.

Speaker 3:

There is where it's meant for. Yeah, okay, very cool. I think our podcast is now called Decoding Commerce. I think we've been over the sales channels, b2b, the B2C a bit, but I might want to dive a bit deeper, just high level, the tech you use within the company and how it has evolved. Today you have a website. I've seen it. It's a beautiful website website. I've seen it evolve also several times. Um, what, what role does it play, your, your website, as of today? And, if I'm correct and I I think I am the shopify is the software you you use for the store. Is it? Was it from the start already? How? How did you start with it?

Speaker 1:

also, Most important thing for the website was for me to communicate the mission and, of course, there was a webshop right away on it. We had a joke every year a new website and the first, I think six years we really had a new website every year, made by another company, because we were growing so fast. We needed more professionalism, professionalism, professionalism, and now we have a party which we are working already, I think, for four years, five years, and they are very good in translating everything what we want to do with the mission that it's good, findable, but that people are also, of course, dragged to the shop. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you anything about the technique behind it, because it's findable, but that people are also, of course, dragged to the shop. Yeah, unfortunately, I cannot tell you anything about the technique behind it because, it's really not my cup of tea I I the only thing.

Speaker 1:

What I look at, that is the visitors yeah and uh, if they're selling a bottle or not yeah of course I get the numbers from it, so unfortunately I cannot say anything about it, but maybe it's good to say also online shopping in general, of course, came up, which also gives you another responsibility of how you're sending your bottles. Sometimes you order something online and you get a huge box and there's a little piece of what you ordered.

Speaker 1:

So we always looked already from the beginning like, uh, yeah, a fair packaging. Let's say Um, uh also. Uh, yeah, we produce partly in China, which is also um, responsibly made. But how you get it here in a responsible way? Uh, so we do work together with good shipping. So they are compensating with the green diesel, as they call it. The last mile in the Netherlands and Belgium we want to do by bike Once a party is done, where it's possible by bike. So this is something we find important. So, even if it costs us a bit more or the consumer has to pay a bit more, we are willing to take this step, because also, people should be aware of that.

Speaker 3:

Very clear, I think. Yeah, indeed, I wanted to see how does the website play a role? Yeah, uh, and it's not only for selling. Selling is, of course, very nice, um, and it's, it's necessary, uh, but indeed it's around communicating the mission, it's around storytelling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's really important. Pledge also on the website was really nice. You can sign the dopper wave as it's called and uh. Online you pledge actually that you will never ever buy a mineral water bottle anymore in your life oh um so over a million people already uh signed the pledge crazy, which is uh, really nice. Um, so that's our engagement tool. Uh, on the website, that's what that's on the mission page.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yeah, we have a special mission page. You have a beautiful mission page, thanks yeah, but I haven't, apparently I haven't been up to like the the last part of the page okay of the pledge? Yeah. Um, that's the, the front end. Let's say that's the store. I just again, we don't need to go too deep into it, but I'm interested do you have an when and do you have an erP system in place? Yeah, or you do all of the inventory, the resources, planning, these things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really important. Yeah, yeah, but also here, I cannot say more than that. We have it. I am aware of it.

Speaker 1:

And that also did evolve over the years. Yeah, and, of course, we are not the only website who is selling a doper, and um, that's really important, uh, that all the partners where we work with is they should not just sell the bottle, but they also should have a mission page. Um, so if you go to as adventures in belgium, for instance, or boldcom in the netherlands, it's not just playing the bottle, but you get also the information about our mission and why this bottle is here so you were able to like hey guys, we want to sell with you, but you need to do this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and even on Amazon we have it. So it's also the deal in the Netherlands, belgium, or actually I think almost for whole Europe, that your landing page is a mission page and from there you can start ordering the bottle.

Speaker 3:

Impressive. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I think we're getting towards the end here, but I do want to hear what's. What's next for Dopper? I think the, the mission is still relevant, for sure. Um, what's next for you? I think we've talked around a bit, alluded a bit around the restaurant, the coworking also, uh, but I'm interested to hear both your I would say more personal.

Speaker 1:

And then the story of doper. Yeah, um yeah, personal or doper I will do it the other way around.

Speaker 1:

maybe that's uh, that's better, um. So for doper, um, um. We see that the, the transition or the shift is slowly a little bit uh happening, so we want to facilitate it. Uh, for sure, we want to be more involved and we are, but more and more involved in the politics of water. Since one year, we have the water tap, so that's really important for us that it will grow. So we want to be on high traffic places, sports clubs, museums, like supermarkets, schools, where people come together, and we started a collaboration also together when we started WaterTap with Google Maps. So this is for the listeners If you have a WaterTap nearby, please let us know or you can put it yourself into the map.

Speaker 1:

So if you are on the street, you do Google water tap near me and you can find the nearest water tap. And this is how we can create change. Electric driving was a hassle a few years ago. Now, on every corner, you can charge your car. It's even going faster than a Ferrari. So I always say you have to make change lazy and fun so lazy that you can tap on every corner and fun and beautiful, because you just have a beautiful, funny looking bottle. So, yeah, that's the mission and our target. What we have to do is to get more on this high traffic places. That's the target for Dopper.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, how do you get there?

Speaker 1:

By talking to uh sport federations. Um, uh, we're talking to the Belgium um athletes uh federation. Uh, we're talking with the Dutch uh soccer team going to the um world uh the European championships. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

There's always a uh athlete house there, that everybody gets a bottle, that there are water taps, Um. So, yeah, we're pushing ourselves as a salesperson actually, yeah, so here we want to be, this is what we want to do and uh, that's how we uh try to get uh. As for my personal mission, lately I say I'm doing my solo Robbie Williams career, so I went from the companies to be the owner. I'm still the owner, but being the manager to source it out actually to other people. I have an excellent management team at Dopper. Also, Mama Guy is part of Oceans, a co-working space, so a good manager and management team there, which gives me the freedom to look for other things in the world.

Speaker 1:

So I'm more on stage nowadays to inspire people, not only about Dopper, but actually how to make the transition to the new world. A lot of people they want, but they have no clue where to start. So I'll give them the tools to do it. One of the tools is the Olympic model, but also how to engage people on the workflow, but also your customers. That's really important to me and I'm really, really interested in my next. So all my companies companies now are came out of frustration plastic frustration, the co2 emissions about meat and the plastic in fish for the vegan restaurants. Uh, travel is my next uh target. Uh, people uh want to travel by train, but uh, it's yeah not really picking up. Let's say, and I do see that a plane can be a very good vehicle, let's say to come from A to B.

Speaker 1:

We are depending on oil because the world is made like that. But there's already many solutions coming up, popping up on a way of sustainable flying. My personal at the moment is uh on um hydrogen hydrogen yeah, that's now my, my focus. Uh, in a few weeks I will do my first e-flight, so I'm flying in an electric plane doing a podcast there.

Speaker 3:

That's a bit different than here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a bit different than here, but also without noise, because it's in an electric plane. That's really great.

Speaker 1:

So I want maybe not maybe for now I say I don't want to be a business owner again in the aviation in this case, but more as an ambassador. So I really want to, yeah, stand on the Zabekist again on the crate to talk about it and inspire people to choose the alternative, which is not there yet in the travel. But there's already a lot of things like train or go by foot to different locations or sailing, but we still want to travel. There's more and more people are able, money-wise, to travel and flying will be a part of it, and there I would like to be an ambassador to make this transition there.

Speaker 3:

Another big goal.

Speaker 1:

Another big goal, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Do you then have your own one pager for your personal development? Because you?

Speaker 1:

now have the oceans you have Mama Gaia, you havepper now the, yeah, the whole other project. So this, the stage time, uh, we created the last year, the, the one pager, um, so that's clear, but for the aviation it's I'm I'm still searching I'm still in the research phase, okay to feel uh, where it, where it said so I don't have a definite goal yet yeah uh, but uh, that there needs to be a change there is for sure for me, and then I want to be part of it is also for sure, but I don't know how yet very cool, I think.

Speaker 3:

Maybe to conclude, the question we, or I, like to ask is um, what's the one thing you'd like to share with an upcoming entrepreneur? What's the one thing you've learned? It can be a book, it can be just an anecdote, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 1:

For any entrepreneur to start. If you have found out, what you want is a quote from Michael Jordan Feel the fear and do it anyway. I remember as the day of yesterday that I was making the decision for myself to buy this mold to make the dopper. It was a big decision, a lot of money, but it really felt good for me and I really felt that the audience was there to do it.

Speaker 1:

If you start a business, even if you have the money, crowdfunding, I think is really a good tool to start a business. Even if you have the money, crowdfunding, I think is really a good tool to start your business because you can really feel if it's relevant what you're doing. So, next to the money, you can ask very little money and you don't have to ask so much. So you know really from the audience if it's picking up or not. And the most valuable advice, what I want to like to give is you the only way to move forward in business is sustainability. There is no old world anymore to make money only. Yeah, if you start a social enterprise, you're making money, they have less chance of bankruptcy and the world really is in a transition. So please step on that train and don't go for the old yeah, Perfect.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you very much.

Speaker 3:

Merin, don't go for the old yeah, perfect. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for being here. It was very interesting, thanks,